Curse

trielementz · Oct 01, 2007, 02:16 AM // 02:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

Yes i did get rank 5 on the preview weekend, but that was only over a 2 day period. But that was one of the few times i've put that much work into something in GWs. Usually I take my time and play casually to earn stuff. Getting rank 5 on the preview event was just to show off by having Norn armor before anyone else.

rank 7, dude. in 2 days. evidently, we have different definitions of 'casual'. my point was that to my other friends who get one or two chars thru each campaign leisurely, and elite armor is not attainable. granted they don't play that in depth, but hey, they have other things to do. given that they also bought gwen, and all the armors cost 40k at the very least, they won't be doing any buying anytime soon.

for a game reviewer who presumably has to play many many many other games, elite armor will require what he deems as grinding. obviously he can't speak for all other players. this does not make his whole review moot.

not to derail this thread again, but i still think that the reviewer made a valid point. the cost of the armor alone can be considered a grind to players, and that doesn't necessarily make them lazy as you've claimed.

freekedoutfish · Oct 01, 2007, 09:54 AM // 09:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by trielementz

rank 7, dude. in 2 days. evidently, we have different definitions of 'casual'. my point was that to my other friends who get one or two chars thru each campaign leisurely, and elite armor is not attainable. granted they don't play that in depth, but hey, they have other things to do. given that they also bought gwen, and all the armors cost 40k at the very least, they won't be doing any buying anytime soon.

for a game reviewer who presumably has to play many many many other games, elite armor will require what he deems as grinding. obviously he can't speak for all other players. this does not make his whole review moot.

not to derail this thread again, but i still think that the reviewer made a valid point. the cost of the armor alone can be considered a grind to players, and that doesn't necessarily make them lazy as you've claimed.

Ok about the rank 7 thing, i forgot about that and yes I got that during the preview. But as I said (since you werent listening), that is one of the few times ive ever played that long and hard for.

I dont play more then 2-3 hours a night on average, and recently Ive hardly played at all.

Anyway....

It doesnt matter how many hours you play the game each night, or how long it takes to complete the campaign. Hardcore playing or not!

By the time you have finished atleast one campaign and done nothing but quests and missions; you should have been able to save up enough gold for elite armor, along with materials. Gold is not hard to make, so I have to question how your friends are handling their gold.

25 missions in prophercies, 12 missions in factions, 17 missions in NF and thousands of quests in total. Concidering the sheer number of drops you will get from doing those alone and selling them to the merchant...

(in high endish areas, your talking about 2-3k from just doing one mission or quest when you sell the drops)

...where is the gold going?

You say that your friends, even after doing all 3 campaigns, have never managed to make enough gold for atleast one set of elite armor?

Lets look at this logically!!

From the perspective of someone playing just one campaign.

By the time you have got to lvl20, bought or crafted 1.5k max armor and bought or crafted a max weapon, you are about 1/4 to 1/2 the way through a campaign on average.

(a.5k Max armor and max weapons can also be crafted from collectors if you cant afford that)

That leaves plenty of time, missions and quests to play through with max gear. That means you should be able to concentrate on doing absolutely nothing, except saving up gold for elite armor.

From the perspective of someone playing all 3 campaigns.

Again there must come a point in one of the 3 campaigns, when you have reached lvl20, got yourself 1.5k max armor and a max weapon. They may not be the best gear, but they do the job.

That then leaves about 1/2 of that campaign your playing, and the whole of 2 other campaigns to play through with that character.

Now explain to me how and why your friends are unable to save up enough gold for elite armor given that you shouldnt have anything else expensive to spend gold on, once you have 1.5k max armor?

I should just be a case of "ok I now have 1.5k max armor and a decent max weapon from the crafter, now im going to save up ALL my gold that I get from this point on, for elite armor". So whats the issue? Especially if your friends had/have another 2 campaigns to play through with that same char!

I assume getting elite armor is a priority for these friends of yours, otherwise you wouldnt have used them as an example. In that case once they have 1.5k max armor and a max weapon (both of which are cheap), they should be concentrating on nothing but saving up.

So again... this leads me to think your friends must be spending all their gold on pointless objects and other things as they play. Are they buying mini-pets? dye? green weapons? keys? ale?

If so, then they need to stop and put some priority on what they want to buy! They cant go around spending their gold on everything they see, and then complain they dont have enough for elite armor.

There is no reason your friends should be finding it hard to make gold, so they must just be really bad at saving up. If you concider you can make about 2-3k from drops in each mission or quest, and then concider you have 12-25 missions in each campaign, along with 100s of quest...

...how is it possible to not afford elite armor by the time you have completed atleast one campaign or 3?

It just doesnt make sense!

Your friends are just bad at saving up and need to learn how to. It will take them a month or two to get all the gold and materials from playing, but if they arent willing to wait then its their own fault.

Sorry I know im detracting from the subject of the post, but this is getting to me!

4thVariety · Oct 01, 2007, 11:45 AM // 11:45

I read his review and also heard what he had to say about it on the 1up yours podcast. I get the impression that he understands gaming as "rushing the pq" and not doing anything else. Completing a storyline equals completing the game for him. I believe it was Garnett who pointed out that there were dungeons to be raided, but I think they did not get the fact that one can raid the dungeon in their entirety after doing them partially once for a mission and that they do not know there were many more than the ones they brushed.

So basically he rushed to kill the final boss which seems to be the point at which he feels comfortable to write about the game and write everything else off as extracurricular activity. Then he goes into bitchslapping a few features by copy and pasting community rants while totally ignoring the real amount of effort it takes to build the hall. Again that Hero need prestige armor argument, that's sooo childish. Does he really want the "monument of self completion"? Because putting all heroes without prestige armor there would make it that. Nothing more than the monument documenting that you bought NF and/or Gwen.

wilebill · Oct 01, 2007, 01:42 PM // 13:42

If you look at Pro review summaries, the Pro review scores from various game sites span an unusually wide range, from down in the 3's to up in the 9's. Clearly the opinions of Pro reviewers vary on Eye of the North as much as ours do!

Gamespot gave it an 8.0, Gamespot members give it an 8.8. Gamespot gives it a Pro Critic review of 7.7 based on 8 other Pro reviews.

I think myself that Chapters 1-3 are hard acts to follow, unless the next "act" is GW2. The review is right about that. Compared to the previous chapters from a gameplay standpoint, in its present state GW:EN is more of an encore to the series.

pamelf · Oct 01, 2007, 02:59 PM // 14:59

They gave GWEN a surprisingly high score for something they obviously didn't seem to like. I would probable have written the same review had I been asked to but given it about a 5.2

EternalTempest · Oct 01, 2007, 05:41 PM // 17:41

One of the big problems with game reviews is a "new" game that designed well gets very high review. Expansions / variations of the same things released start coming out the lower and lower scores that come out because it did not "re-event" the wheel (despite being based on the highly related design that got it high marks before).

StormLord · Oct 01, 2007, 08:44 PM // 20:44

Regarding the 1UP review, you have to consider that it was written by Ryan Scott. He's the guy that totally lost it over the difficulty of the Realm of Torment a few months back. And if you check his blog, he seems to have totally lost it again, this time because of the "difficulty" of Grothmar Wardowns...
So, obviously GWEN would get a low score from him.

margretli · Oct 01, 2007, 11:07 PM // 23:07

Oh my eyes hurt when I tried to read what he [Ryan Scott] had to "say" about those charrs... All those pretty, and HUGE CAPS

[Edit] I have never take game reviews too seriously. How can ANYBODY have enough information to judge a game only by playing it a few hours? I use game reviews to get an idea of what a game is like, and even then, I'll go by the reputation of the game maker(s) more than the reviewer(s). Same as movie reviews...

I think the entire "pro-review" industry (or what ever it's called) is the most ridiculous form of journalism.

thunderai · Oct 01, 2007, 11:08 PM // 23:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by StormLord

Regarding the 1UP review, you have to consider that it was written by Ryan Scott. He's the guy that totally lost it over the difficulty of the Realm of Torment a few months back. And if you check his blog, he seems to have totally lost it again, this time because of the "difficulty" of Grothmar Wardowns...
So, obviously GWEN would get a low score from him.

odd, there are only three things that make we totaly lose it over GWEN.

1). Frostmaws
2). Shards of Orr
3). Slaviers Exile

I completed 1 durring the preview week and now it kicks my buitt every tiem i try. Shards of Orr is insane, even though i can complete it, it hurts. and 3, well it sucks ass.

makosi · Oct 01, 2007, 11:31 PM // 23:31

Anet are now feeling the Wrath of their new grinding ethos.

As my mother says, "Take what you get."

Tahlia Tane · Oct 02, 2007, 01:38 AM // 01:38

1UP has some of the most ridiculous reviews on the internet. I have no idea WHY people still go there.

GW:EN is worth at least a 7.

trielementz · Oct 02, 2007, 01:40 AM // 01:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

Now explain to me how and why your friends are unable to save up enough gold for elite armor given that you shouldnt have anything else expensive to spend gold on, once you have 1.5k max armor?

this is getting totally off topic, but i shall just leave a short reply. a) friends started playing since prophecies b) most do not like play a campaign more than 1 or 2 times c) with multiple characters, only 1 or 2 will see play each new campaign. d) they stop playing mostly once they reach the end game. e) their account balance is usually below 50k (i believe the highest amount is 44k-ish). if any of these friends are interested in a full set of gwen armor, they'll have to work harder for it. some, not all, of them play through 1 character very completely. to replay through a single campaign comes close to being a grind (heck i'm playing thru gwen a 2nd time and i find myself quite bored of most quests). They don't buy minipets or weapon skins, and *logically* i can't speak for their drops. I can only give you a picture of their xunlai balance and their status of completion. they don't even bother with forums, so you won't hear them here.

now, my friends have at least 3 GW products so they've at least completed 3 campaigns. GWEN is also for those with only 1 campaign. there could well be those with 1 or 2 characters who've completed Prophecies and nothing else. and they won't play a single game 2 months on end and will probably lose interest in the time it takes to earn that armor the non-efficient way (no trading, no farming etc).

i still remember back when getting a set of 15k armor in prophecies was a huge decision because it took me ages to earn that. i still have friends in that state, though they've mostly ceased to care and simply play through once or twice. i don't think they're lazy, just that their priorities have shifted before they've managed to earn enough to get that armor. if they changed their playstyles, sure they could get that gold in a few weeks. but what if to them, that'd constitute grinding? remember, these are people who play through a campaign once or twice at the very most and stop playing. the temptation to get elite armor only lasts while they play.

this is my last post on the subject. either you get it, or you don't. my original point was that many people have different ways of playing GW, such that a set of 50k could obtain a certain amount of grinding (to them) to obtain. the reviewer could have played prophecies only once and graduated to GWEN, and i therefore do not think that invalidating his entire review based on a particular opinion he has is a wise thing to do.

trielementz · Oct 02, 2007, 01:53 AM // 01:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by margretli

[Edit] I have never take game reviews too seriously. How can ANYBODY have enough information to judge a game only by playing it a few hours?

i don't know.. when it's bad, it's bad you know? you probably won't need to play 1 hour to tell that a game is bad.

edit: before i get flamed to death, i am not referring to GW, just reacting to his statement.

Gattocheese · Oct 02, 2007, 05:18 AM // 05:18

[QUOTE=4thVariety]I read his review and also heard what he had to say about it on the 1up yours podcast. I get the impression that he understands gaming as "rushing the pq" and not doing anything else. Completing a storyline equals completing the game for him. I believe it was Garnett who pointed out that there were dungeons to be raided, but I think they did not get the fact that one can raid the dungeon in their entirety after doing them partially once for a mission and that they do not know there were many more than the ones they brushed.

QUOTE]

Well the intent to raid dungeons is to get uber cool stuff and high rewards. Thats not the case with GWEN. You raid, you get a gemstone or two and repeat. Maybe a worthless green. I dont agree that its actual raiding. I do agree however, for as bais the review was, i was amazed GWEN got that high of a rating.

freekedoutfish · Oct 02, 2007, 09:54 AM // 09:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by trielementz

...

Well if your friends arent willing to save up past a certain amount of gold, then I think that sums it up!

Otherwise it makes no sense to me why yourself or others are having issues making enough!

But your choice, and theirs how you play the game!

Mordakai · Oct 02, 2007, 12:42 PM // 12:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by gattocheese

Well the intent to raid dungeons is to get uber cool stuff and high rewards. Thats not the case with GWEN. You raid, you get a gemstone or two and repeat. Maybe a worthless green. I dont agree that its actual raiding. I do agree however, for as bais the review was, i was amazed GWEN got that high of a rating.

A six is not considered "high." 60% is considered "failing" in most people's eyes... I don't know how bad a game has to be to get a 30-40% score, but I bet is has to be pretty unplayable.

Most new games that don't have game-breaking glitches (and some that do!) get at least a 70% to 80%. 90-100% are given to games like Bioshock and Half-life 2.

GWEN is not broken. It's a fun game to play, and it has all the elements of previous games. So, I don't see how it can get a 6 out of 10, unless someone just doesn't like Guild Wars. In which case, why are they reviewing the game?

romeus petrus · Oct 02, 2007, 02:46 PM // 14:46

There is some major dissatisfaction so far with what GWEN had to offer. I'm sure most would agree that some form of a major update will be welcome. However; it can't be something as stupid as introducing an HM for GWEN. That hardly qualifies as a major update. Most of my guildies and my alliance members are waiting for some massive SF/DOA/TotPK/Urgoz/Deep type update and thats the only reason most of us are still playing.

Short of that GWEN is hardly worth ur time or money.

lord dragon · Oct 02, 2007, 06:25 PM // 18:25

When I started playing GW in Prophecies, I needed the tutorials that were there to learn the game. I needed easy mobs to start so I could see how the game mechanics worked. I liked how the game progressed so I could learn the ropes of the game. The rewards increased as the difficulty did. The game was challenging throughout as it increased in difficulty as I progressed.

Factions and Nightfall worked the same way as intended because it was a free standing game.

(Hopefully no one disagrees on the basic game mechanic)

GWEN was introduced for level 20 players. Level 20 challenges for players that had gotten further in the game, not a new player.

We can argue till blue in the face whether it is new armor or reskins, same with weapons. I am not going to debate this any longer as both believe what they will on it.

Why GWEN gets such a low score from so many is that it didn't deliver the content it was proposing to exist in the expansion. Where are the areas of challenge that have a reward attached that make it worth playing? Remember now, with existing areas in the other 3 expansions, you are competing to a certain extent with the other games released. What makes GWEN so compelling that a player needs to buy it and go there? What challenges exist (with the corresponding reward) to want teams to join up and fight a foe?

With the introduction of hard mode, I very rarely play in normal mode. I do when a alliance/guildie needs me to, otherwise it is hard mode for me. What does GWEN offer a player that plays this way that another area of the game doesn't?

If it is the point grind, sorry not interested. If it is the flawed hall of monuments, sorry not interested. If it is the same dungeon repackaged for the areas, again, sorry not interested. Nothing compells me to go. Teams are almost non existent. (I like pugs). I could run around with H/H all day, but for me, that is about the same as playing neverwinter nights.

Now, for the ones that say, well just don't play it then. I did pay $40 for this. It was not as promised or advertised.

I agree with the reviewer except I think he rated it to high. Maybe I am in the upper 1/2 of players that require a risk/reward combo that is above the norm. GW spoiled me that way already in the other areas.

Now for the comments on I am just in it for the gold, ect. I have more gold then I could spend in the game until GW2 comes out. I give more stuff away in a week then most get in a month. Not really interested in material things other then the challenge to get it, and the thank you when someone needs it.

As for the skills in GWEN. I just can't fathom farming for points. No benifit in it whatsoever and really hate the direction the game went with this from Nightfall on. It makes Time>skill. To many times I have seen a newer player with a high title think he is good because of the title without realizing he is not even close.

So, for the protectors of the status quo currently, if you believe that all is perfect in the game, great. Realize that the ones that gave things away, helped you with missions because he wanted to see a new group of people come up, introduced you to hard mode and the elite areas leave, what are you left with?

With the changes lately in the game, I find myself playing more and more solo with solo builds. I dare not suggest a new build for fear of a /report. I do not curse, not my nature. I do not insist, not my nature. The pug is all but dead at this point, so no reason to really look for it. So what does a PUG loving player do in GWEN?

GW was built on a good community. It was built on generous people. It was built on people liking to play the game. I am sorry to see the state of the game now.

Griff Mon · Oct 02, 2007, 07:14 PM // 19:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

More hate for Asuras.... oh, and note to reviewer: Dwarves will not be playable in GW2!

There Dwarves will be gone, save a few changed to stone/earth creatures of some sort...

Read the lore in the back of the PC Gamers Guild Wars Ultimate Guide, it sets the stage for a very different world. Very different world indeed, Lion's Arch a pirate camp?, thats what they say.

I enjoy GW:EN, and I rarely take reviews seriously, especially after reading one of the original Prophecies reviews where the reviewer said there was nothing to do after reaching level 20 and ascending.....

Lord Natural · Oct 02, 2007, 07:25 PM // 19:25

Pretty good review that nails a lot of the game's problems. I read gamespot's review and was a little confused by its relatively high score, but the screenshots were a tell than the reviewer was a pretty casual player. Credit 1up.com for having at least 1 reviewer who's a GW regular.

Quote:

GWEN is not broken. It's a fun game to play, and it has all the elements of previous games. So, I don't see how it can get a 6 out of 10, unless someone just doesn't like Guild Wars. In which case, why are they reviewing the game?

- 90% armor and weapon re-skins
- Very short campaign
- Smallest GW game geographically
- Repetitive dungeon design
- "Elite" dungeon is both easy and unrewarding, offering only a small chance of any worthwhile items.
- Using title tiers to make up for lack of content, forcing you to grind what content there is to unlock simple stuff like armor and weapons.
- New heroes used as a sell, but add absolutely 0 to gameplay due to the 3 hero limitation.
- Hall of Monuments not particularly compelling.
- Mini-Games have little replay value or purpose beyond the first play-through.
- No new elite skills and very few relevant non-elite skills. (good for game balance, bad as a sell)
- Nothing new added to PvP at all, aside from a couple of skills which see some use. No new modes, no new maps. Nothing to differentiate this from past games, with respect to PvP.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- 80% the cost of a full GW Game!

Adding these things together and I think a 6.0 is very generous, and I happen to like GW.